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[UPDATE: Visit Carol’s blog My heart goes out…]
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Carol Boltz is Articulate and Speaks from the Heart
Carol Boltz is a wonderful, loving, honest woman. She lived as the spouse of a very public husband for three decades. Now, she lives as his very public ex-wife. They decided to divorce after he came out as gay.
A few weeks ago, Carol was interviewed by the internet radio program Gay Christian Network. She also has a web page where she talks about her experiences and her life now, My Heart Goes Out.
Here is some of the interview:
Then, I realized in a moment that he wasn’t kidding. None of us knew what to do. We cried and we hugged …
I still thought that you couldn’t be gay and Christian. I thought there would be a solution. I thought we could fix it…
I was in collapse. I had no way of dealing with this. At first, I thought there was a solution. I thought that there could be a fix…What did the future hold? “What do you mean you’re gay?” The thing that sticks with me from that day: It’s not what you do. It’s who you are…
I had all kinds of fears. I was just crying all the time, and no one to really help with that. Ray, we cried together a lot.
I began to realize that there was a difference between how you lived your life, that someone could be Christian or non-Christian, someone could be gay or straight, someone could live with integrity or not live with integrity. But it was not true, what I’d been told in every church I had ever been in, that there was a gay lifestyle, that gay people had uncontrolled, crazy sex lives, that they were identifiable by what they looked like, that they had an agenda, that the activists were out to destroy Christianity. All those things I had heard specifically in church.
The contradictions in my mind were indescribable. And so, as I was learning these things intellectually, I was going through the emotional trauma that if I accepted this, that if I understood this the way other people were expressing it, then, there was no hope, that Ray was telling me the truth, that it’s not what you do, it’s who you are, and that he was gay, and he was not going to change. He was saying, “I can’t pretend…”
I couldn’t live with not believing him… There were a lot of things I had to reconcile … my emotions … how much I loved Ray … what I’d been told in church … what my future would look like … tremendous, tremendous challenges …
I began to meet people, anonymously, first online. I found a wonderful blog written by Peterson Toscano, I began to read Peterson every single day… Once in awhile, I began to post anonymously … I had to get connected with people with information that I had never had before… I was afraid to really let people know who I was. We were still very closeted, still trying to figure out what to do with the business, with the ministry …
I eventually met Peterson in person … I got connected with Soulforce. I found GCN. I read so much on their message boards. All these things were helping me. I realized that there are people out there who are gay and Christian that live lives with their families or individually, with partners or without partners. I began to have glimpses of something outside the churches that I had heard these untruths from. It began to build me up…
Ray always said, it was fine … we could tell whoever we needed to tell. “This is not just my story.” It was our family, and we were close… They tried to find out information for themselves, and we would talk about it … really close.They’re all still close with their dad. There was never a rift. Nobody ever fought, or left angry… All the kids have realized that mom and dad are doing okay. It was hard for them … There were adjustments on the part of all of us…
When I read The Other Side of the Closet … when one spouse (the gay spouse) comes out of the closet, the other spouse (the straight spouse) goes into the closet … several options … good reasons to stay together. However, in our situation, and considering that Ray had done his best to live straight for 30 years before coming out, I knew that he could not continue to pretend to be straight and survive … He didn’t feel, and I didn’t feel, that it would be right to let people assume that he was straight…
In the beginning I didn’t want to separate … counselor asked me if I had known before we were married, would I have wanted to marry a gay man, and my honest answer was no. Is it a breaking of the vows? The answer is yes… Both members of a marriage have an obligation to each other … financial … children … when to separate? There is no good answer.
My hope is that younger people will have the hope of a family of their own, younger gay people will have a hope of a family, so that they can spend their lives together. If I hope that for my gay friends, I hope it for me…
I realized about a month ago that I have made so many friends, friends that I now know are gay, that walk their own faith journey. I realized I would never have met them … neither of us could have been as real and honest and respectful. I would have had in the back of my mind that they were somehow not really Christian. And, instead, I recognize their faith and their walk, and how endeared they are to the Lord, the suffering that some people go through by rejection of their families. I would never have known them, and had them as my friends, if all this had not happened to me. I can see so much more how God can work through these troubles…
I think that the change that happened in me was understanding better … I don’t think we need to overlay our expectations on the Bible. We need to receive from God that Jesus is for all people. And, that he wants us to walk in love and forgiveness and temperance in all things … fruits of the Spirit. .. Jesus came to the woman at the well, and He told her about her life … We need to worship in Spirit and in Truth …I don’t think there’s a difference in people. Don’t stereotype people. In the past, I made assumptions about people and about their lives … I think we need to look at people more transparently.
In a practical way, I think that young people need to know that if they’re gay, they’re alright. There’s nothing freakish about them. There’s nothing unlovable about them. They need to develop normal relationships and have outlets for dating. I heard someone (say)… “What if we had open dating allowed in church, so that people could develop relationships with integrity… do the things that we expect for youth… have gay-straight alliances in church for young people.” I think that’s a fantastic idea. Because the hope of family lives in all of us. Gay people need to know they can live in community at church, and family at home, and be respected and included in the church. That would be my ideal.
Resources Carol Recommends:
- “Can my gay child change?” – article by Peterson Toscano
- “What the Bible says – and doesn’t say – about homosexuality” download available through Soulforce
- Amity Pierce Buxton, “The other side of the closet.”
- Carol Lynn Pearson, “Goodbye, I love you.”
- http://petersontoscano.wordpress.com/
- http://www.beyondexgay.com/
- http://www.forthebibletellsmeso.org/indexb.htm
- http://www.gaychristian.net/
- http://www.rmnetwork.org/
- http://www.teach-ministries.org/
- Jeff Miner, “The children are free – reexamining the Biblical evidence for same-sex relationships”
- Mel White, “Stranger at the Gate.”
- MILK – the movie
- Prayers for Bobby – Lifetime movie starring Sigourney Weaver
- www.soulforce.org
Thanks for transcribing so much of the interview. Thanks for posting it, for believing in me. Thanks, Deb.
It was my pleasure, Carol.
Thank you for your openness about your life.
I know there are many who are taking your honesty, and Ray’s, as an opportunity to attack you and Ray (in the name of God, of course). There are people who have chosen to reject you and Ray, because of his coming out, and because of your support for him and all lgbt persons. They are misinformed.
I know you to be an open, honest, loving, giving, devoted Christian woman. If those who speak badly of you and Ray were to look at your history, they would see that your history and your present life give you credibility.
The one good thing I see about people criticizing you and Ray, by name, is that those who need the truth that is in your personal story will be able to find you because of those who have named you and criticized you.
For anyone who has heard of Ray Boltz or Carol Boltz, and anyone who is married and gay or married to a spouse who is gay, you are not alone. Carol has opened her heart to the world, and you can find support, encouragement, comfort and hope in the pages of her personal web page My Heart Goes Out.
Thank you, Carol, for the light you shine in this world.
dear Carol, I want to acknowledge that it is impossible for me to have adequate compassion and understanding and respect for ur story, when I haven’t lived it.
I don’t want to insult you by sharing my own opinion and I won’t do that. But I just want you to consider your statement:
” I don’t think we need to overlay our expectations on the Bible. ”
Later, you said that we must worship in Spirit and in Truth…how can we worship in TRUTH (worship God according to what He is really like and in a way that pleases Him) if we do not read HIS words?
I don’t have any answers but I beg you to never give in to any emotion or thought which takes u away from the greatest revelation that God has given us- His Word. Otherwise, we are so vulnerable to our deceptive emotions, challenging circumstances and the Enemy’s workings.
God bless u sister, with the blessings of Matthew 5:1-10.
Hello Jelly,
Thanks for stopping by, reading and commenting on what Carol had to say in the GCN radio interview.
Please feel free to visit her web page and read more of what she has to say. She invites comments from readers.
Carol is a wonderful woman who has spent most of her life in a fundamentalist Christian faith. After she learned that her (then-)husband was gay, she began to realize that what she had been taught about gay people (that it’s a choice) was not true.
Carol has compassion, wisdom and personal experience.
Visit Carol’s web page:
http://myheartgoesout-carol.blogspot.com/
Yes, homosexuality is a choice…just as adultery is a choice…lying is a choice…stealing is a choice…all sin is a choice. If you deny this, you’re only fooling yourself. Truly sad.
Natalie,
I posted your comment expecting others to reply and rebut, but since none have, I’m posting this reply. Why did you not include “just as judging others is a choice”?
Who a person is drawn to is not something someone chooses. It’s hardly worth saying, it’s so obvious. But, you seem not to believe it.
I have no doubt that you have not ‘chosen’ who you have been attracted to in the course of your life. You can choose who you date, love, marry, and have sex with. Those are choices. But, I do not believe that you have ever chosen who you were attracted to. It is no different for gay people.
If you want to push the ‘sin’ issue and call loving and committed relationships between two adults sin, why did you not call the breakup of heterosexual relationships sin? The Bible never shows Jesus talking about same sex relationships. But, He is shown talking many times about divorce. Are you as vocal with your divorced friends, calling them out for their ‘sin’, as you are with gay people?
I consider other people’s relationships none of my business, although you’d not know it by my frequent references to The Architect’s Garage. I make an exception there, because I found his blog through comments he left on Carol Boltz’s blog, criticizing gay people. And, on his blog, he calls himself straight and happily married, but he talks in many posts about his attraction to men.
Where does your ‘choice’ argument apply in a situation where there is a marriage between a man and a woman, and one of the members of the couple is attracted to people of their own sex, outside of the marriage (and, felt that way before they ever got married)? He feels what he feels. He’s felt it for his whole life. He used to try not to feel that way, but he is still attracted to men and he talks about it all the time on his blog.
Is the person who accepts himself as he is, and is in relationship with another adult of the same sex, doing the wrong thing (in your opinion)? And, in your opinion, is the person who “has same-sex attraction” (as Robert calls it, while claiming he is heterosexual and has married someone of the opposite sex and had children with her) doing the right thing? Which is more honest? Which is the one who is living as God created him?
Here is a link to Carol Boltz’s post today. In her post, she says that she won’t post comments that are against gay people, and she explains why. I posted your comment, but I hope that you will take the time to read Carol’s post. I agree with what she says: Some comments are out of line, and I won’t publish them. I encourage you to read Carol’s blog frequently. She knows better than most that who a person is attracted to is not a matter of choice. My heart goes out...
I agree with you that if we are going to be true about what the Bible teaches concerning homosexuality, we need to also be correct about what the Bible teaches about divorce and remarriage. The chuch has compromised on divorce and remarriage and I believe that the homosexuality issue is just a result of this.
When it comes down to it, what we feel is not what we are to base our decisions on. We need to base them on God’s revealed truth. I have battled depression and know that feelings are not reliable compared to following God’s Word in truth. Love is a choice. Feelings follow, but even if they are not there, we can still choose to love. Every marriage will be tested by seasons of lack of feelings. Are you saying that when people don’t feel love for their spouse, they should just look around and find someone else?
You might want to check out this book.
It has helped me to see the real foundation issue is that we need to see marriage as God sees it and be obedient. Marriage is ultimately not about us, it is about the God Who created it and His relationship to His people. Ephesians 5:32
You might find this of interest.
http://theworldofdoorman-priest.blogspot.com/2008/09/ray-boltz-old-news-but-time-for.html
DP, Thanks for the link. Your post is wonderful. I hope all lurkers will click the link and read it, too.
I truly feel for Carol. I know this must be extremely difficult through these times, but this is not the time to excuse away the scriptures. Personal experience doesn’t negate God’s view on this subject. Culture doesn’t either. i enjoyed His music so much and I believe just maybe He has been given a deluding influence that He would believe this lie. I hope carol you don’t as well
Hi Mike,
Thanks for your comment. Carol has actually just recently addressed the issue you mention (scripture and God’s view on things). Her newest post is here: Bible and changes – it happens!
I love Ray’s music and won’t stop praying that God blesses him, Carol and family. Unless you walk in the man’s shoes you
don’t have the right to criticize or judge……